Which is greener: bidets or toilet paper?

Debate of the Day 17

 

So this debate is inspired from a post over on Treehugger about bidets and toilet paper.  Here's a little snippet:

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We use 36.5 billions rolls of toilet paper in the U.S. each year, this represents at least 15 million trees pulped. This also involves 473,587,500,000 gallons of water to produce the paper and 253,000 tons of chlorine for bleaching purposes. The manufacturing process requires about 17.3 terawatts of electricity annually. Also, there is the energy and materials involved in packaging and transporting the toilet paper to households across the country.

 

Toilet paper also constitutes a significant load on the city sewer systems, and water treatment plants. It is also often responsible for clogged pipes. In septic systems, the elimination of toilet paper would mean the septic tank would need to be emptied much less often.

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So what do you Huddlers think?  Use a bidet?  Or maybe pull a Sheryl Crow and use one square of TP? 

 

When it comes to your bathroom habits, what's greener?

Hmm interesting, that isn't something I'd even considered.  It seems pretty clear that bidets are greener than toilet paper.  You're not cutting down trees or using bleach, and the total amount of water used for each is probably similar.  Very interesting indeed.

 

Apparently Google headquarters uses bidet toilets.

Edited by dana1981 - Tue, 29 Apr 2008 20:20:54 UTC

hmmmm how much extra water would it take if everyone used a bidet, though?  i'm guessing not nearly as much as it takes to produce all that toilet paper, but it's certainly a thought. plus, if people used non-bleached paper, it'd definitely relieve of some of that chlorine use!

 

Well according to the numbers above, it takes 13 gallons of water to make one roll of toilet paper.  According to Charmin, the average person uses 8.6 sheets of toilet paper per visit.  Let's say the average toilet paper roll has 500 sheets, so in each trip you're using 1.75% of the roll, or about 0.22 gallons of water.  Nearly a quarter of a gallon.

 

Seems to me like a bidet would use less water than that.  It's true that non-bleached paper would reduce the amount of chlorine, but most people don't use non-bleached paper.

Edited by dana1981 - Wed, 30 Apr 2008 17:26:00 UTC

BAM that's some quality quick math. Nice work Dana.

Hehe thanks.  I like quick and dirty back-of-the-envelope calculations.

Dana - I love that calculation!

 

I've been thinking about getting a bidet-seat - a friend has one and it works great.

 

Thanks.  I ordered one a while back - darn company lost my order in their spam folder, but I'm finally supposed to be getting it on Monday, at which point I'll review it here (assuming they add a bidet section to Huddler - hint, hint).

 

Hint hint, nudge nudge...wait...huh?  :-) 

 

Okay, you asked for it.

 

Haha thanks stins.  I added the one that I'll be getting.

 

Now you just need to add a section for my clothes drying rack and I'll be all set ;-)

Yeah, I know....not to talk too much shop here...but we are strategizing about category expansion.  The only thing is we're trying to keep the site really structured so it's easy to browse to what you want to find.  But we'll be talking more about that in the upcoming feedback session.

Just as an update, I measured that my bidet uses about one-quarter the water it takes to make the equivalent amount of toilet paper.  Works pretty well, too.

I have used Green Bidet and i truly belive it is better than toilet paper thats for sure

www.greenexportimport.com

To renew an old topic:

 

In Turkey just about all (if not all) toilets come with what is referred to as "the Turkish pipe". Simply an additional water connection in the backside of the toilet rim - just under the lid - with a directional nozzle and valve.

 

Very little cost to the producer and works perfect. If you want it could be connected to hot & cold though that would waste a bit more water.

 

Unlike a bidet it doesn't take up an extra space in the bathroom.

 

Don't know why companies in other countries don't pick up on it.     

My bidet (biobidet bb-50) is just like that, and can be attached to any toilet.  So they're certainly available, but just not popular in the US.  People have just gotten used to not having bidets here, but now that I've gotten one, I much prefer it.

Here are a couple of photos of one model of toilet with the 'Turkish pipe'. There is one valve beside the toilet to turn the spray on-off. Could be warm water if you want though that would waste more water.

 

Fifteen seconds consumes about 1/2 liter of water - say one pint for all practical purposes. 

 

Yeah similar setup to my bidet.

 

Right Dana - my point is that the unit is built in at practically no cost in the ceramic bowl - no reason it can't be picked up on by other manufacturers. 

Yeah, seems like it'd be a pretty easy modification for toilet manufacturers.  But I guess maybe the demand has to be there first?

Yeah for most Americans it's just a weird concept because we never use bidets.  Manufacturers could add them, but there's no demand for it here.

 A hand held bathroom bidet sprayer is so much better than a stand alone bidet and this is why:1. It's less expensive (potentially allot less) 2. You can install in yourself = no plumber expense 3. It works better by providing more control of where the water spray goes and a greater volume of water flow. 4. It requires no electricity and there are few things that can go wrong with it. 5. It doesn't take up any more space, many bathrooms don't have room for a stand alone bidet. 6. You don’t have to get up and move from the toilet to the bidet which can be rather awkward at times to say the least. Available at http://www.bathroomsprayers.com

I have seen the stand alone type around the world - in many countries and even fancy hotels they are common.

 

I just prefer the toilet (not bidet) with the built in spray - it is even more cost effective.

 

In the master bath in our new house there are both for that matter - the bidet has other uses than just washing the backside my wife tells me. Other baths have only the 'Turkish pipe". 

I have the Miracle Toilet Faucet (www.miraclefaucet.com).  Same as the bidets mentioned above - no electricity needed, sprays where it's needed.  It can attach to any toilet and is even more descrete.  You can save even more water by putting a brick in your toilet tank, but still be efficient by using an MTF.  You don't need as much water in the tank if you don't have to flush away a bunch of toilet paper.  Great, solid product.

 

 

 I was searching for something similar and noticed this: the video made me laugh but it may be a great idea - i just can't quite work it out.

http://www.goodentrepreneur.com/The-Competition/Entries-Pool/Tjebok-a-message-in-a-bottle-saving-water-and-improving-health

 Hi Sara, Welcome to the Greenhome Huddler!

I looked at the video but don't have sound connected to my PC - seems to be a water purification scheme?

Russ

Hahah, yeah.  It's like....a portable bidet!  He says in the audio that his goal is to spread worldwide (sustainable) sanitation.  His arguments for using the bottle is very similar to most arguments about using bidets - they increase hygiene ("for your lower body"), there's no water waste because you can use as needed, and you don't need any toilet paper.  In this case, there's no battery needed, no electricity, etc.

My question is....when and how would people use it?  Bidet seats are generally a "one stop shop" combined with a toilet.  But...what if you don't have a toilet?  I'm guessing that's when the Tjebok comes into play.  So would you just whip it out?

What is that you have in your pocket?

Actually. most public loos in India and many other places have no paper available - would come in handy I guess.  

Don't you still have to use toilet paper to dry yourself off? Have never used or even seen a bidet

Hi John,

Either paper or a towel is required. Workmanship quality is somewhat more important with the towell though!

Even with paper a lesser quantity is required.

Sometimes the first experience people have with a bidet it gets rather wet - one style which used to be popular in South America had a single jet shooting straight up. I remember being in Buenos Aires and changing shirts after my first direct observation. Feeling rather silly as I remember as well.

OK here is another scenario that changes the calculation.

If you live Off grid, or nearly so, the bidet has a even greater effect.  Example: We have a mountain house that has it's own well, and septic system. Since all of our water that is drawn from the well, is returned to the soil less that 300 feet away, it seems to me that we have virtually zero impact water use.  The electricity that powers the well is generated from sustainable sources so that impact is gone as well.  Is my thinking skewed?